Infinite Blogging

Tales of love, fertility and nourishing food.

Some things to think about… November 18, 2006

Filed under: Uncategorized — Annette @ 4:14 am

My mom talked to me tonight about her concern that there have been several people in LCG who have left to go to RCG in the last month because of concerns over liberality and modesty.  Apparently modest has also been discussed by UCG in the last several months.  Mom sent me links to some of their articles, which were interesting and thought-provoking.  Discussion, anyone?

http://www.ucg.org/un/un0303/modesty.htm
http://www.ucg.org/un/un0305/modesty2.htm
http://www.ucg.org/un/un0607/heart2heart.htm
http://www.ucg.org/un/un0608/heart2heart.htm
http://www.ucg.org/un/un0609/clothingappropriate.htm

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11 Responses to “Some things to think about…”

  1. Anonymous Says:

    As a UCG member I’ll attest to there being an increased emphasis on it. I also expect there to be another sermon on their website about the topic. This should be no surprise since society seems to become more immodest by the hour. Up until the last year UCG did not say much about the topic other than a church video a few years back. Although I don’t know for sure, perhaps you can enlighten me, but I suspect LCG has the same issues with a minority of teens and some adults. I don’t think it is done intentionally but if one has had their sense of fashion right and wrong set by society and not been educated otherwise then they probably don’t see anything wrong with their dress.

    The question for UCG and probably LCG is the approach. Is it better to educate the membership about what is appropriate realizing that they have to come to change their outlook or do you simply lay down a law, like was done in previous decades and is presently done in RCG, and bring back the clothing police? I personally believe the education approach is the correct one for lasting character. If you just enforce rules people comply because they have to and there is no change of heart.

  2. Crystal Says:

    I don’t know about policing people but didn’t the Apostles “lay down the law”?

    I believe in educating people but I think you can do that and lay down the law at the same time w/o having to go into each member’s house & raid their closet.

    I agree that change needs to be of the heart & not just because you feel forced. But you sparked a thought. If you’re living a godly life style, even if you don’t understand fully why you’re doing it, wouldn’t you still be blessed? I believe there are several examples of this in the Bible.

    Just my two cents.

    (=

  3. Infinity Says:

    I think the point that Paul was making was that we don’t need to be out with yardsticks measuring women’s skirts to determine if they’re of an appropriate length. Sure, the Apostles laid down the law, but I don’t recall them ever mentioning anything about how long skirts are required to be, or whether or not flip-flops are appropriate. It’s my impression that they laid down the law about things that were doctrinal or commandment issues, and then gave general principles for the other things. I think that’s what UCG is trying to do here.

    If someone came out with a rule that skirts could be no shorter than an inch from the top of the knee, I would be forced to only wear clothing that conformed to that standard. But just because I’m conforming externally does not mean that I agree with it or I have changed my attitude. Just because someone hasn’t killed another person doesn’t mean they will be blessed for keeping “thou shall not murder”; they may still have the attitude of hate in their mind, and I think that is what ultimately counts.

    To answer your question, Paul, I think you’re right, I think this is an issue which mainly concerns a minority of people. However, there also are those of us (myself included) who could benefit from more instruction. I know it’s helped me to reconsider some things that I have worn both inside and outside of church.

  4. Desiree Says:

    I totally agree, Annette. I cleaned out my closet about a year ago– trying to get rid of anything immodest. I think I need to do it again, as I’m pretty sure some questionable items have mosied back in.

    It is difficult to know what to wear and what not to wear. So I would certainly welcome the instruction. I don’t want to look provocative, but soemtimes I may not know that I do. Strapless dresses are not OK for Church, but are they okay for formal occasions? If strapless dresses aren’t okay, then are dresses with straps? How thick should the straps be? I think I would personally like some more details. Not like… hard and fast rules, but just some guidelines. I don’t see my body the same way a boy would.

    And I do wish that LCG would speak a little more on some of these topics. They’re doing a good job, our leadership– don’t get me wrong. I appreciate all the messages we are given. I’d just like to see some more articles or sermons on… day-to-day living.

  5. Richard Says:

    Hi Infiniti — Buckblog’s link brings me here for the first time.

    The more this topic comes up, the more I wonder if the Churches of God are forgetting some things. Like what Jesus said about John the Baptist. Or what James wrote about treating visitors.

    I posted an article on “modesty” a few years ago, when UCG and LCG first began focusing on this topic. I updated it the other day, in light of what Richard Pinelli wrote in the United News.

    That UN article was posted in the lobby at the Feast site I attended this year. The UCG Statement of Beliefs were not, nor were the Ten Commandments. Does this send a right or wrong message about priorities?

  6. Infinity Says:

    Richard, I don’t think the posting of the UN article was a question of priorities. The Feast was primarily for UCG members, not for people who are unaware of what UCG is and what it believes. Members attending the Feast are very likely to be aware of what the 10 Commandments are, and to know what the Statement of Beliefs says. They may not, however, know what the latest instruction from HQ is on dress. The impression I got is that this is a relatively new topic that’s been recently addressed in UCG, and that is why someone felt it would be appropriate to post the new standards. Most of the members have been in the Church for several decades. If this were back in the early days of the church, they may have felt it was appropriate to post the 10 Commandments and the Statement of Beliefs as a reminder as well.

  7. Richard Says:

    Yeah, I guess the Feast is “primarily for members.” But UCG invites magazine readers at large to attend — albeit with a rather small announcement on one page, only a few weeks before the Feast.

    I personally would rather see more openness to the public than that.

  8. Mikeesee Says:

    It seems as though I were commenting on a blog recently about how men are pigs, and now this… 🙂 With as much, umm, exposure as we all get to this kind of immodest behavior every 10 seconds of our daily lives, it’s hard as men to not notice women dressing scantily and women to not feel pressured to do so.

    It’s so much the norm that I would even hear from my “religious” friends at work who have been married for 10-20+ years to check out the new young co-ed on the team! It is revolting and it happens waaay too often. I still remember the first discussion us men on my team at work had when “hot pants” started becoming regular dress at work. Some of were questioning if it was appropriate while others were happy about the change. Now most women in our company consider it “professional” wear. And it’s pretty much standard wear for the younger girls at church. This is just one small example.

    As a married guy, it’s hard enough to not look at the hundreds of daily examples of pushing sexuality on the job, on the street, on TV, on the radio, etc. ‘Adultery’ is such an awful sounding word, let me tell you. That said, I’m sure wanting to be fashionable yet discreet is difficult for women when your only style choices are between Britney Spears and Maw Kettle.

    My wife and I will discuss this on occasion and it’s my job to make sure that I let her know if she’s wearing anything that will make her stand out too much. It’s one thing dressing up to look nice for your spouse or boyfriend, but you still will be seen by others out in public. Don’t make your man have to defend your honor when some jerk is ogling you. 🙂

    That said, it seems that LCG has been stressing for the last year or two that we need to be a tad more sensitive to newer or younger members who just don’t think about these types of things yet in hopes that they will eventually get the picture. However, there are plenty of people that still haven’t gotten the memo on this subject and everyone has their own ideas of good taste. I’m sure Mr. Weston will publish something more on this subject in the future, and Mr. Meredith has been less than discreet in his abhorrence of today’s fashion values. “Hollywood whores” was his latest phrase this Feast. 🙂

    In the end, I can only control my eyes and what I wear and possibly suggest something to my wife if need be. We can notice what everyone else is doing, but can only change our own actions while being an example to our peers and those who are younger than us. If you walk into an event in shorts while everyone else is wearing formal wear, you’ll feel out of place. It can start with church and move to their private lives over time. Going right out and jumping all over someone will probably drive them away, but if someone is doing this out of rebellion, it’s quite likely that something more than clothing is wrong.

    That’s my two cents…

  9. Anonymous Says:

    Buckblog said, “If you just enforce rules people comply because they have to and there is no change of heart.”

    Probably true, but doesn’t following rules that one may not necessarily agree with develop another aspect of good character – submission to the proper authorities? Disclaimer: I’m not talking about rules that are clearly against biblical principles, nor am I advocating a return of the clothing police.

    MiKeesee said, “That said, it seems that LCG has been stressing for the last year or two that we need to be a tad more sensitive to newer or younger members who just don’t think about these types of things yet in hopes that they will eventually get the picture.”

    Yeah, he has. I’m surpised that he hasn’t been accused of changing doctrines again.

  10. Desiree Says:

    I’d also like to add something from a psychological aspect: changing behaviour changes the way you think. It’s fact. So while “forcing” someone to dress anti-hobag may not immediately change their view on should I/shouldn’t I dress this way… it will eventually. If they have to dress a certain way, it’ll eventually become habit.

    I’d also like to throw this out there: the only reason I can imagine that anyone would have a problem with dress standards is if they were concerned these dress standards would no longer allow them to ogle women’s semi-naked bodies.

  11. Silence Says:

    Well, like everything else, we human being seem to need to be reminded regularily about things and especially as this society continues to spiral downward in immodesty and immorality. God designed his holy days so these things were repeated over and over for his people on a yearly basis and it’s no different with other subjects.
    Dress codes should not be dictated, but frankly young people today “dont think” and they do not see that what they are doing is a problem.
    I read a book some time ago entitled “the death of right and wrong” in which the author showed that young “christian” teens were involved with pre-marital sex and just didnt think there was a problem and yet they considered themselves christians.

    UCG should be commended for speaking out and all the churches of God should do the same.


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